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[admin] possible rules changes (poll)
zen, your ocean refuses no river
musesfool wrote in remixers_lounge
We're contemplating a couple of major changes in the remix process this year, and we're polling to gauge interest and participant sentiment.

We would like to open Remix up to RPF fandoms if people who write RPF are interested in participating.

So we have some questions about which RPF fandoms should be qualifying fandoms (i.e., are large enough/have enough people who've written enough stories to qualify under last year's rules of having written at least five (5) stories of at least 500 words in one (1) fandom), because I don't even know what's big these days beyond CWRPF and bandom. I know the popslash remix is currently running, and lotrips used to run their own, but are either of them still big enough to provide a pool of participants to Remix/Redux? I guess that is what we're trying to find out. (If your RPF fandom doesn't get in as a qualifying fandom, that doesn't mean you can't offer it or remix in it; it just means you have to offer something one of the qualifying fandoms to play.) (Also, just as a reminder, there is no matching on pairing or category [i.e., het, slash, or gen].)

We are also thinking about slightly loosening the criteria to qualify, to something like fandoms in which you've written EITHER five (5) stories of at least 500 words OR fandoms in which you've written seven (7) stories of at least 100 words. (Under this possible rule change, if you've done five stories in one fandom and seven ficlets in another, you would qualify in both fandoms)

Please vote, and point your friends here to vote, because if we don't get a significant number of people indicating interest, we won't make them qualifying fandoms.

Poll #1391584 Possible Remix Rules Changes

Participants should be allowed to qualify with

five (5) 500 word stories in a single fandom (it ain't broke; don't fix it)
EITHER five (5) 500 word stories OR seven (7) 100+ word stories in a single fandom

I have enough stories in one (or more) of the following fandoms to qualify, and would include it as one of my offered/requested fandoms when I sign up:

Bandom (which in this case is defined Fall Out Boy and Panic! at the Disco only)
you are missing a HUGE RPF fandom I will tell you about in comments

Would you be willing to volunteer to check participants' websites/journals to ensure they have the qualifying number of stories in the fandoms they offer?


Again, please vote, and send your friends here to vote, as well.

[eta] Two things:

1. if your RPF fandom is a yuletide fandom, it is probably not large enough to be a qualifying fandom in Remix. The point of qualifying fandoms is that they are large and many participants request/offer them, so they provide everyone with at least one matching fandom. (And yes, we are reviewing some of the fandoms we listed last year, which are probably too small to really be on the list.) So if you really think your fandom is large enough, you need to send people to this post to vote, to comment and mention it, because laurificus and I are likely not familiar with them.

2. As far as Bandom goes, neither of us is in the fandom, so I listed the two bands I'm familiar with, and left MCR out. MCR will be included if Bandom is a qualifying fandom. (see this comment for more information)


disclaimer: this poll is simply to gauge interest/numbers, and is not binding on either you or the mods.

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um, this is one vote for no RPS in this 'thon

Wasn't the ORIGINAL "we invented the remix" for RPS? Isn't this Remix in RESPONSE to that remix? I feel like I just saw the popslash remix launch... for what it's worth, I'd keep RPS out of this remix simply for matching purposes; you're opening yourself up to a ZILLION other fandoms, right?

I have no problem with RPS but I haven't written any nor plan to remix any; don't you feel like this will make matchups harder?

Re: um, this is one vote for no RPS in this 'thon

We'll still have the qualifying fandoms like we did last year, so everyone will still have to offer/request at least one of those, so it shouldn't be that much more difficult in terms of matching.

But yes, I originally started Remix/Redux in response to to the popslash remix, and they are currently doing theirs now. I mentioned it in the post *points up* because I don't know if they'd be interested in joining this one.

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If someone wants to remix one of my RPF fics, I'm 100% down with that.

I doubt I'd be able to qualify in any RPF fandoms (unless one has a very broad definition of "CWRPF"), and I wouldn't offer to write in any (because someone else's definition of "CWRPF" is going to focus on pairings I couldn't write for because I don't watch the show), but I don't quite see how giving the people the option could hurt, or make matchups harder. It's already made clear "there is no matching on pairing or category" so someone like me who can write VMars RPF but not Smallville should already know they shouldn't offer that as a fandom.

Edited at 2009-04-29 01:30 am (UTC)

Right. If people sign up for CWRPF, they might get a pairing they don't write or don't know about, but I'm not splitting it out, because then it gets complicated, and no other fandom gets split by pairing.

Using my OLD SKOOL Politics RPF icon!

Politics RPF is a good-sized, very active fandom nowadays, and has some writers who've been active since at least the '04 election season if not before. Among the new-skool, rahmbamarama has almost 3,000 members. It also has significant overlap with Pundit RPF (Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Keith Olbermann, Anderson Cooper, Rachel Maddow, etc.), which has at least three different large communities devoted to it, some of which have also been around since at least '04. (punditslash has about 500 members, fakenews_fanfic has about 1,300, and tds_rps has nearly 2,000).

Most of the posts in these communities are friends-locked for obvious reasons, but people would have the option of reposting their stories elsewhere unlocked if they wanted to participate in the Remix.

Re: Using my OLD SKOOL Politics RPF icon!

Yeah, they'd have to have the stories unlocked and available somewhere. Feel free to send them over here to vote and mention pundits or political rpf or whatever in the comments. It really is a numbers game - you can still offer/request it even if it's not a qualifying fandom, but for it to get on that list, it needs to have a base of people who I can count on to actually sign up, you know?

If you allow someone who ONLY writes drabbles (they are out there!), would there be any leniency in the guidelines? Such as...you can combine two [or more?] of their drabbles in your remix?

I know everyone has "early" stories that they would cringe to put forth today (including me!) But even a not-so-great 5000 word story can have a plot twist or a particular element that you can pull out to work with. If someone's got seven 100 word stories, and three of them are earlier ones that maybe aren't saying anything much at all...well, you've only got 400 words TOTAL from which you can glean something, and that could be...OMGack! *L*

Mind you, the idea is definitely intriguing...and I'm no stranger to shit-your-pants remix challenges. (Heh.) Just thought I'd throw the idea out there. :)

People have done that in the past. I suppose we could include it as a possibility in the rules, though in the past we've been pretty clear that people are really only signing on to have one story remixed, and while I am all for people remixing more than one, some people are... touchy about these things, you know? We will think about it.

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Yay! I like these changes you are comtemplating.

I like the idea of making my RPF available along with my FPF and having someone else's RPF available to me.


Even if they don't come up as qualifying fandoms, the stories are still eligible if your remixee has made them available.

Pimped! I was sad not to officially participate last year, but I think I have well and truly exhausted the Yami no Matsuei contingent of this challenge now, so hopefully a rule change will save me (and them).

Well, you can still qualify in other fandoms if it doesn't make it in as a qualifying fandom, and match up on it anyway.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how many will actually be qualifying fandoms - we may be weeding the list from last year down as well - but the possibility is there now if you want it.

you are missing a HUGE RPF fandom I will tell you about in comments
Isn't there a fair amount of Canadian actor RPF out there? I'd think that might qualify, along with pundits & politics.


I've linked some Canadian actor RPF resources in my comment below!

Is there a specific reason bandom is being defined as FOB and Panic only here? Bandom itself functions with FOB, MCR, and Panic as the main bands, then kind of spirals out as it includes other smaller associated bands like the FBR bands and The Used. MCR is a big fandom, with a lot of good writers and stories. More actually, than I've personally encountered in FOB, and I read a lot of fic.

Well, I am not in the fandom, so I only named the two bands whose music I actually like. But if it is big, and there are enough people who would be willing to sign up for it, that category can include all three.

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I don't know if I'd call it a "huge" RPF fandom, but Canadian actor / C6D RPF is a moderately large small fandom; it's in Yuletide, it's allowable in the C6D Midsummer Santa fest (about to start for the fourth time), and there are several communities for it, notably ckr_actorfic and rpf_canada. And I qualify with 5 stories of 500 words or more.

Well, something being a yuletide fandom means it is probably too small to be a qualifying fandom in remix. I'm already looking at weeding out some of the fandoms we listed last year because they're too small. The point of the qualifying fandoms is so that we can be assured that everyone will have at least one match, and generally that happens with the larger fandoms.

NASCAR RPS is pretty active these days though the tendency of the fandom runs toward serials more than anything else. Not sure if that'd be an issue or not. It also has a section in Yuletide.

Edited at 2009-04-29 02:26 am (UTC)

Generally, if something is small enough to be a Yuletide fandom, it's probably not large enough to be a qualifying Remix fandom, because the qualifying fandoms are meant to be really large and allow for every participant to have at least one match. So if you think it is large enough, please send your friends over here to comment that they'd sign up and offer/request it, and we'll consider it.

On the other hand, even if it's not a qualifying fandom, if you qualify in something else, you can still offer/request it, and there is a possibility you'd get it.

I'd find it really hard to remix a drabble - so I'd prefer to leave it at five 500 word stories.

Actually, there was an incredible challenge - several iterations of it - called remixthedrabble, in which people did just that. I found it a remarkably fun type of remix, and by its nature it encouraged people to different kinds of creativity. To quote some meta I posted about this challenge:

There are two basic types of remix. One takes the events of the original story as "truth" and presents another perspective on that truth; the other builds a new story around what the remixer considers to be the essential core of the original story. Each type has its own advantages and pitfalls (in terms of working toward the goal of a story which both stands alone and can be read as a meaningful companion to the original). The neat thing about the structure of remixthedrabble is that by imposing a length limit and encouraging a fixed structure, I think it naturally steers writers away from these pitfalls.

The first type of story is, I think, the most natural to write, but it can also lead to what I see as the worst sort of remix ever, where the events and dialogue are all a rehash of the original, and the new POV fails to add new insight. Requiring a minimum of 100 words rather than 1000 words encourages writing styles and changes of form that don't work as well in longer stories. For example, getting rid of the dialogue altogether is reasonable in a very short story, while I, at least, can't stand reading more than a page or two without it. The form lends itself to expanding an alluded-to scene, or playing with the timescale and plucking out only bits and pieces of the original.

The second type of story has to walk a fine line in order to be both a totally new story and remain true to the core idea of the original. The great thing about very short forms is that at their best they concisely express one single idea. A true drabble has to encapsulate set-up, crisis, and punchline in a mere hundred words. So it's a natural transformation, I think, to take a story and distill it into its essence, when one has only a few hundred words to work with - I think it's easier to get sidetracked when you need to write a longer story.

In both cases, I think that the encouragement to stick to round-numbered wordcounts makes writers think about their word choices and pay attention to refining the story into a sharp, punchy morsel. I should add that I think that it's tremendously difficult to transform one hundred-word story into a different hundred-word story, and I am impressed by those who can do this!

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Aren't they both yuletide fandoms?

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I agree that MCR ought to be included in the bandom category. (Though I'm speaking as someone who doesn't have enough of my own stories in that fandom, and who probably won't offer to write it, but who is an interested reader.)

I'd also suggest defining JE as Arashi, KAT-TUN, Kanjani8, and NewS, assuming it gets enough votes to be a qualifying fandom. The agency's been going strong since the 1960s and represents over two dozen groups. The four groups I've named are currently the most popular in fandom (at least the English-speaking portion of it), and a remix participant offering to write JE ought to have at least some knowledge of all of them, or, worst case scenario, be able to familiarize herself fairly easily with one of them if necessary.

Heh. I just made an ETA about MCR. Since it's not my fandom, and I only know the bands because of the music, I didn't include them.

As far as defining JE, mousapelli is my adviser on that one, so I'll run that by her. Thanks.

Edited at 2009-04-29 03:24 am (UTC)